whirlfloc problem with Excess Trub Help please

[Eoin]

Calcium also plays a role in the flocculation so it's not purely protein. Gypsum is added to the boil to help precipitation sometimes, it works well with the proteins and the agar.

[irish_goat]

Do the pros use whirlfloc?

[Eoin]

Do the pros use whirlfloc?

Most that I can tell, whirlfloc or protofloc granules. I use protofloc myself.
If they don't they risk shelf life issues.

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[brenmurph]

My observation is that the protein flocs around the pieces of agar/seaweed this results in small clouds of trub around the granules, this makes them greater than the sum of their parts and very fluffy, this sponginess takes more wort than is logical due to its spongey nature. Dose it correctly and you won't have this issue, I've already been through this cos I thought more is better, until I had a conversation with Graham Wheeler on jims a few years back. It needs to be high enough to work, but not too high that it creates a fluffy precipitate.

just been reading around, discovered kerry foods in cork make this stuff, have the safety sheet now but it says nothing about dosing. Have been observing the usual 10 different answers to this question e.g. half a tab, a whole tab, 5 minutes, 10 minutes, 15 minutes and nbo-one has the answer, is it trial and errror I suppose?  I used a whole tablet, I feel again the home brew shop negligent in some ways selling a tub of expensive tablets with no instructions, how hard is it to stick a lable sayin "half per normal homebrew batch ( 5 galls)

From what Im reading Im going to have to drop off another 4 litres and throw it down the sink, thats a 7 litre loss on this occasion of lovely Altbier, next brew ( today) Ill use 1/3 tab and see if theres not a fluffy trub.

so my 30 litres ia now  low 20's and ill lose a litre to yeast as well... thats the learning process, I for one am happy to learn by my mistakes. im surprised though that at least 10-15 sensible whirlfloc conversations Ive had with good homebrewers, nobody warned of the importance of getting the dose bang on, or that there are larger losses using this stuff.

will continue to play around

[Eoin]

As a BIAB practitioner I'd never get away with not using some product.
Bren, it's possible the less powerful carrigeen(Irish moss) might be better for you if you have no precision scales. The tabs and granules are enhanced somehow over plain Irish moss, but they are primarily sea weed still.

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[Eoin]

Do you recognise the name Graham Wheeler? If not then maybe what you're reading from me is not as relevant as it might be. Get a precision scales, go by the recommended 30—50mg per litre, starting at 30 for a normal gravity brew.

I use 1.8g of protofloc granules in my 60l brews.

Edited to correct values.

[Eoin]

The manufacturers are actually negligent in their instructions, with us only being homebrewers the losses are not commercial or important.
As a brewery consultant Wheeler knows the numbers.

[brenmurph]

heres grahme wheelers quote:

"Whirlfloc
Whirlfloc is a similar product to Protafloc. Whirlfloc-T is the product in tablet form. Whirlfloc is used at 20 to 60 milligrams per litre, which is about 1 gram for a 23 litre batch. A standard whirlfloc tablet weighs 2.5 grammes, so half a Whirlfloc tablet is sufficient for 23 litres, and is added ten or fifteen minutes before the end of the boil. "

[Garry]

Do you recognise the name Graham Wheeler? If not then maybe what you're reading from me is not as relevant as it might be. Get a precision scales, go by the recommended 300—500mg per litre, starting at 300 for a normal gravity brew.

I use 1.8g of protofloc granules in my 60l brews.

I'm confused! Doesn't 300mg = 0.3g? Therefore 60L x 0.3g = 18g. Or am I mixing up my units somewhere?

Edit: Just seen bremurph's post. So it should be 30mg - 50mg per litre 

[brenmurph]

think he meant 300-500mg per 5-gall batch?

[Eoin]

Sorry my units are wrong. I'll find the post on jims. 30-50mg is correct. 1.8g is my correct dose in any case. Any more causes issues.

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[Eoin]

Apologies, have a read with some technical explanation from Wheeler on this subject, his username is Graham.
I was wrong by an order of ten, mea culpa.

http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=35738&start=30&hilit=Fluffy+trub+losses

[Eoin]

Hope that helps Bren. Thing is if shelf life or clarity are not things you value then maybe don't use finings? I always do as I like my clear beers.

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[Eoin]

heres grahme wheelers quote:

"Whirlfloc
Whirlfloc is a similar product to Protafloc. Whirlfloc-T is the product in tablet form. Whirlfloc is used at 20 to 60 milligrams per litre, which is about 1 gram for a 23 litre batch. A standard whirlfloc tablet weighs 2.5 grammes, so half a Whirlfloc tablet is sufficient for 23 litres, and is added ten or fifteen minutes before the end of the boil. "

Read that whole thread, he expresses it more accurately and explains losses to trub.

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[DEMPSEY]

Brenmurph stick with it and follow Eoins advice regarding amounts. I should have mentioned this to you before but I had forgotten that this issue came up a few years back. You can also get Irish Moss in a form of little bits that you spoon out. Whirlfloc and protofloc are all used by commercial brewery's. I saw it being used last Sunday at Bru Brewery. It was sitting in the bucket with the late hops and added with them to the boil.