2017 AJ GB Notes

[willk]

1. Leaving it in primary on the lees for another few months until im ready to bottle it
2. Syphoning it to another plastic fermenter and leaving it there for another couple of months before bottling
3. Bottling immediately

FWIW, I've typically racked (we're wine making here) into a secondary once the primary has stopped.  If the cider is still somewhat murky, you'll still get a good fall of yeast to provide fodder for malolactic fermentation.  I've been forced to use plastic for secondary, but I'm very careful to avoid unnecessary exposure to oxygen.  I've then stored the FVs at single figure temps, bottling in Spring before things heat up.  TBH, I don't think it's a huge issue.  My worst case scenario was one summer when things got a bit mad and I didn't bottle until July - the results were still very drinkable. 

Maybe this says more about my standards than my methods....

IIWY, I'd go for Option 2.

[bighoppapump]

FWIW, I've typically racked (we're wine making here) into a secondary once the primary has stopped.  If the cider is still somewhat murky, you'll still get a good fall of yeast to provide fodder for malolactic fermentation.  I've been forced to use plastic for secondary, but I'm very careful to avoid unnecessary exposure to oxygen.  I've then stored the FVs at single figure temps, bottling in Spring before things heat up.  TBH, I don't think it's a huge issue.  My worst case scenario was one summer when things got a bit mad and I didn't bottle until July - the results were still very drinkable. 

Thanks for the reply willk!Just wondering, are you storing it at low temps to protect it from unwanted bacteria/yeast activity?

I've read a bit on winemaking (no hands on exp though!) and have heard I should leave no headspace in fermenting vessels. I'm currently using 30L plastic fermenters so there's roughly 4-5L airspace. This doesn't seem to have caused an issue in primary, due to the co2 layer I'm guessing, but should I be concerned about this in secondary and if so any recommendations on how to compensate for it?

[Water_Wolf]

Ideally you should siphon the cider into glass carboys near the end of fermentation (I've got a load of 5l ones, they're pretty cheap) or just a plastic carboy if you're only going to age it a few months. You're not going to gain much by racking to another bucket with the same amount of headspace other than helping it clear a bit better at the risk of more oxidation.

So I'd vote for either bottling now or finding some other sealed containers to rack into that will not have such a large headspace.

I also add one crushed campden tablet per 5 litres when I'm racking to another carboy to reduce oxidation.

[willk]

Thanks for the reply willk!Just wondering, are you storing it at low temps to protect it from unwanted bacteria/yeast activity?

I've read a bit on winemaking (no hands on exp though!) and have heard I should leave no headspace in fermenting vessels. I'm currently using 30L plastic fermenters so there's roughly 4-5L airspace. This doesn't seem to have caused an issue in primary, due to the co2 layer I'm guessing, but should I be concerned about this in secondary and if so any recommendations on how to compensate for it?

I ferment in almost full FVs and after racking, I top up to absolutely full with cider (I have as many as 10 on the go and I often have a few small 5L demis as well.  It can result in some wastage but generally not.  You can add boiled water to close up a small headspace, if your ABV is high enough.  You want to keep cider above 5% minimum to preserve it.  Aim for no headspace, IMO.  Storing cold because my shed is in Donegal   Seriously though, it helps clear the cider and has to restrict unwanted microbial action over the winter.  I will bring it up above 15C for a period before bottling, as I suspect it encourages malolactic fermentation (if it hasn't happened already - I ferment it around 15C)

[bighoppapump]

Turns out I had a film yeast (at least that's what it looks like) in primary which must have appeared after fermentation had finished! I didn't spot it as I had been taking samples from the tap at the bottom of the fermenter.

I only notices the sneaky bugger when I took the lid off after transferring it to secondary and seeing chalky white flakes on the inside walls of the bucket and on the Lees.

My secondary container had about 5 ltires of headspace so I thought I'd leave it a week there to see of the film re appeared. Sure enough it resurfaced and after moving it to the kitchen it broke into parts that sank into the fermenter. I let it settle for another day and half during which the film partially reformed.

But I used this time to read through all the cider 101 stuff related to infections and also some winemaker tips from cjj berrys book.

Putting my new knowledge to use, I syphoned  the cider from secondary though the tap to the original container the juice came in. I left about 3/4 litres behind including the part with the film yeast on top. I crushed and added 7 campden tablets and topped it up to the brim with 2l water and 5l tesco apple juice.it's now sitting in my bike shed at 8C so with any luck it's not completely ruined. Worst case scenario is Ill have plenty of cider vinegar to sell at farmer's markets!

[Water_Wolf]

Well hopefully the problem will go away now that you've added more sulphite and removed the big head space. Just watch out that it doesn't start fermenting again now that you've added some sugar back in via the Tesco apple juice. If it has and you don't have an airlock on it (I haven't been able to find a bung big enough yet!) then you might have to loosen the cap every so often to let some gas out.

[bighoppapump]

Decided to make some use of this snow day so had a look at how my sick cider is doing. The white film yeast appears to have returned even after I filled the container up to the bottom of the neck. I tasted some of it and it still seems redeemable but I have no idea how to do this. I was thinking of racking to 3/4 seperate demijohns as I'd planned on trying some with various additions such as oak chips, fruit etc. If I take this approach how would I prevent this film yeast from re-occuring?

I'm planning adding a few campden tablets to each demijohn and then filling back up to the bottom of the necks. Should I add more packaged yeast at this stage to outcompete the film yeast? Or is this pointless as there is very little residual sugars left for them to feed on?

[Water_Wolf]

I'm out of ideas! But if you have some glass carboys then definitely rack into those with a bit of campden.

As you say, adding yeast won't do anything unless you add more sugar, and you might also have to aclimatise the yeast to the alcohol level too. It would kick up any remaining sediment too, so I'm not sure if it's worth the bother.

You never know, it might end up like Sherry Flor and improve the cider!

[Water_Wolf]

I bottled half my batch at the weekend. From the few sips I had, it's tasting nice so far - quite different to anything I've made with raw apples before, though maybe a bit 'thin'. I think a bit more aging will do it good!

[helmet]

Hoping to bottle this soon, it's been sitting in secondary since January. Will I need to add a little yeast to the bottling bucket?

[ianm]

I bottled mine two weeks ago no yeast added. Should be plenty in suspension even if it's fairly clear. Just longer to carbonate.

[Keg]

Are you keeping it in glass carboys for secondary? I've just kept it in standard plastic FVs until Jan/Feb but I'm curious how long you can actually take secondary fermentation in the right vessel. 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk

[helmet]

It's in glass, thought it might be a bit long to keep in plastic.

[CH]

CBC1 is the best product for guaranteeing carbonation in any kind of beer or cider that's been sitting around
Rehydrate in a small solution and do a very gentle mix into your fermenter

[helmet]

Thanks for the advice folks!